How the Make the Most of CC’s Challenge 4
Welcome to our Challenge 4 Page!
Theology, Virgil, ancient literature, world history, physics, and, of course, the senior thesis, all make Challenge (Ch.) 4 memorable and challenging. Here are some tips, downloads, and lessons learned from Ch 4!.
Where Ch1, Ch 2, and Ch 3 had students write a lot of papers, Ch 4 has students giving mostly oral presentations. The Ch 4 Guide encourages students to really focus on their rhetorical skills through these speeches. This kind of practice is so important for helping students grow their presentation skills! I plan to require slides for a few of my son’s presentations just to get him used to doing it, since that’s what is often expected in college and the rest of life.
This page is part of our series on how we homeschool with Classical Conversations.
Check out a full list of all the resources on our main CC page here.
Table of Contents for This Page
- How to Grade Challenge 4
- Senior Thesis
- Logic (Math)
- Grammar (Latin)
- Research (Science)
- Reasoning (Formal Logic)
- Exposition
- Debate
- Artsy Fun
- Other Resources
I know there’s a lot of information here, but I’m going to try hard to use headings and bold lettering to make it easy to scan!
Update! We made our graduates T-shirts with Sticker Mule. I think that if you use that link you get a $10 credit! (I might get a referral credit too, but I’m honestly not sure!) The t-shirts were great (nice a soft after the first wash) and very affordable ($20/shirt)- highly recommend.
I uploaded our design here so you can also order a shirt for your 2026 Grad if you want too!
Help Contribute!
If you have some suggestions or additional samples of student work you’d like me to add here, please send them to me at: Julie (at) RidgeLightRanch.com
And now for some legal stuff
I try to use affiliate links whenever possible. So, if you use one of these links I may get a few pennies from it. However, the cost to you will be the same. I promise that I never choose what to suggest to you based on the benefit I might receive from it. You can learn more about our affiliate policy here.
Classical Conversations has asked me to tell you that “References to Classical Conversations do not constitute or imply endorsement by the company.” I’m guessing you knew that, but now we’re all on the same page.
Prerequisites
I’m assuming you already read about how we do Classical Conversations and about how we do Challenge, where I cover:
- Organizing for Challenge
- The Student Planner
- Grading in Challenge
- Keeping a Timeline Journal / Book of Centuries?
- Homeschooling High School
I also want to remind you to also talk with your CC Director. This page is one mom’s advice and each CC group does things a little differently.
Now let’s move on to the Challenge 4-specific material!
How to Grade Challenge 4
I cover all the general information about Grading in Challenge on my general CC- Challenge page. I hope you’ll read that first!
Since high school means transcripts, please be sure to sit down with your student and explain what this spreadsheet is for and what it measures (it doesn’t exactly measure learning, as I mentioned in the Grading in Challenge segment)!
This is how we’ll do Ch 4 it in 2025-6, but let me know if you think I’m missing something! Within this Excel spreadsheet are two tabs- one for each semester. Each Subject below has some additional details on how I grade that subject. Since this is an excel file, you may need to right-click and choose “save as…” in order to open the file.
My youngest will go through Ch 4 in 2027-8 and I’ll update the grading sheet then.
Senior Thesis
Since the Senior Thesis is not presented as a part of one of the other strands, I thought I’d give it its own section here too.
What is the Senior Thesis?
Students write a 12-20 page persuasive paper on a topic of their choice, then they prepare a short summary presentation of their paper and defend it before a panel of judges. I’ve been on that panel and I’m always so impressed with the students!
There’s a 10-page section in the back of the guide that walks students through the process, but my experience is that most students procrastinate instead of following the guide. (Of course, I procrastinated everything in high school and college too…) This appears to put way more stress on the students than they’d otherwise feel. In an effort to combat this, I’m assigning points for many of the milestones and putting them on my grading sheet (see above). It also really helps if the tutor I pushing the kids too.
While the heaviest work on the Senior Thesis is during 2nd semester, have your student thinking about topics as early as possible (like today)! The topic needs to be a persuasive thesis that proves something. Here’s a nice summary from the Ch 4 guide: “A senior thesis makes a claim and supports it with persuasive argumentation, presentation, and evidence. It is not simply a research paper.”
If you’d like more help, a friend of mine highly suggests the book, Rhetoric Alive, by Alyssan Barnes. I think CC used to sell it but now doesn’t? Anyway, it goes through each stage of the senior thesis process with instructions and examples.
April 2026 update: I’ve read over a dozen senior thesis papers over the years and yet it was still a very different experience havin gmy own child doing this. It’s a hard thing we’re asking of them! We’re now less than a week from the end of the year and I want to add these tips while it’s all fresh in my mind:
- Students need to make sure they have actual in-person converstations with people who think differently than them. This seems to be the best way to really understand the other side of the issue. If they don’t understand the other side, their rebuttals will be lacking.
- It’s crucial to have a solid outline before they start writing. if they don’t, they will ramble all over the place and loose track of what they said where.
- Leave several weeks for editing.
- Have your student read the whole thing out loud to themself. It’s a great way to catch mistakes.
- Leave a week for someone else outside your family to provide suggestions for edits
Logic (Math) Strand
I have a lot to say about Logic-Math and most of it applies to all the Challenge levels, so I’ve moved that info to a separate page. (nothing on Math Map over there- my kids are too old for its rollout) I hope you’ll check it out:
2. Grammar (Latin) Strand
Again, I have a lot to say about Latin and most of it applies to all the Challenge levels, so I’ve moved that info to a separate page. I hope you’ll check it out:
One unique thing to Ch 4 is that, during 1st semester, students will be translating a lot of famous Latin passages, like the Apostles Creed, the Magna Carta, and part of scripture. The guide gives them Internet suggestions for where to find each of these in Latin. If you like to keep your kids off-line, you’ll want to go print all those out for them!
3. Research (Science) Strand
New ‘Physics’ Book
In past years, students have worked through Saxon’s Physics textbook. However, starting in the summer of 2025, CC is switching to a new book called Calculus for Everyone by Mitch Stokes. Yes, the book has Calculus in the title, but it’s being used for Science. The subtitle is Understanding Physics and the Mathematics of Change, so some have even suggested calling it a Physics credit on your transcript.
Anyone know why they are switching? Maybe most Ch 4 students didn’t have enough math to be doing Saxon Physics? Rainbow Resources (one of my favorite places to buy books, says this about the Saxon Physics curriculum:
“Rather than an introduction to physics (i.e. basic/general physics), Saxon Physics is an engineering physics course. A scientific calculator is needed for the course. Students will be most successful with this course if they have completed at least the first half of Advanced Mathematics or some other pre-calculus book that includes trigonometry. This text is strong enough to be considered an AP Physics course when paired with the DIVE Physics Lecture and Lab CD-ROM.”
I bought the Calculus for Everyone book and started reading it. It seems to be a big-picture look at the language of mathematics. I think it will be a very interesting read, but I don’t think it’s a good substitute for Saxon Physics. I usually try to never be critical, but I just can’t help but say that I’m sad about this switch. Between this and Math Map, I fear CC will soon have a reputation of being weak on the STEM side of education. Only time will tell.
April 2026 Update: My son has enjoyed Calculus for Everyone, especially alongside his math and physics. He says, “it’s a very good foundation for understanding advanced mathematics, but it would not suffice as a math or physics curriculum on it’s own. Where other books show you a bag of tricks, this book gives you the general principle it all operates on, but leaves you to figure out what the practical tricks might be. I’ve very glad I also had a separate math and physics curriculum.”
Our Saxon Physics Plan
After researching other local options that just didn’t work for one reason or another, I bought the Saxon Physics books off eBay and we plan to go through the curriculum in addition to all the other stuff in the Ch 4 guide. I usually try not to add anything to CC, but this year does appear to be lighter and my son wants to major in engineering in college, so I think it’s worth it this time!
As of June 25th, 2025, the guide in CC Connected still had all the old Saxon Physics schedule in it, so I’m writing that down and following it. It’s basically 3 lessons a week plus a test most weeks (which follows Saxon’s guide for when to do the tests, given in the Test Forms booklet). The guide only went through lesson 87 and test 20 so we may be finishing the book over the summer. (Most of the time in traditional schools they don’t finish the text book, but I really like to.) Wish us luck!!
I’d love to do the labs too, so I bought the Saxon Physics Laboratory Experiments book. The old guide doesn’t help since it doesn’t include anything about labs. However, the Lab book includes instructions for which labs go with which lessons and a suggestion that students do one lab every 3-5 lessons. I’m not sure if we’ll have time to do labs, but I’m going to try to do at least one every 2 weeks. There are many more labs to choose from than the book suggests doing, so maybe I’ll let my son pick? There are a lot of unknowns here so if you have some experience, please give me advice!
What to Purchase for Research (Science)
I like to purchase all this at Rainbow Resources or eBay, but you can also buy straight from Amazon too. Check each place for the current prices!
- Calculus for Everyone by Mitch Stokes.
- Calculus for Everyone Exercise Solutions by Mitch Stokes
IF you want to do Saxon Physics, here’s what you’ll need. Unlike Saxon math, everything appears to still be first edition. Please note that Saxon suggests students be halfway through Advanced Mathematics to take this course. In other words, students should have completed all the algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and now be taking pre-calculus while they take this course.
- Saxon Physics Student Textbook
- Saxon Physics Solutions Manual (contains worked-out answers for all the problem sets in the textbook)
- Saxon Physics Homeschool Packet Test Forms (contains tests, including quarterly, semester and final exams)
- Saxon Physics Homeschool Packet Answer Key (contains the answers to the tests)
- Saxon Physics Laboratory Experiments (optional, but you’ll need it if you want to consider this a lab science on the high school transcript!)
What Goes in the Binder
It appears students will be assigned the Study Questions and Exercises for each chapter of Calculus for Everyone, so those should go in the binder.
For Saxon Physics the chapter tests and the lab reports will go in the binder.
How to Scale Back Research (Science)
For Calculus for Everyone, you could complete the Study questions and Exercises verbally or just talk through the answer key together if you needed to scale it back. (Since my son is doing Saxon Physics, I’ll probably have him read through the book and answer key in preparation for class discussion.)
For Saxon Physics, you can make tests open-book and not require formal lab reports to scale it back.
How to Grade Research (Science)
It appears students will be assigned the Study Questions and Exercises for each chapter of Calculus for Everyone. That should be a fairly simple way to assign a grade.
For Saxon Physics I’ll grade the chapter tests and the lab reports.
- Tests- I allow my students a single 3×5 notecard with notes on it. On the Quarterly tests (included with the curriculum) they are allowed to use all their past notecards. Many of my professors in college allowed a notecard and I found I learned more from making the notecard than any other form of studying!
- Lab Reports- I still need to think through how many formal lab reports I’ll have him do…
- Since this is the last year of formal lab reports I’m expecting a little more from my student. I made a Lab Report Grading Sheet (similar to a rubric) that I’ll have him use for each of those reports this year. It’s based on The Students Lab Report Handbook by John D Mays, which is slightly different from how Apologia set up lab reports.
- I give completion points for completing:
- Daily Problem sets, (which my son completes and grades on his own)
- Participation- This will require him to read the Calculus for Everyone book in addition to doing Saxon Physics.
Free Download: Lab Report Grading Sheet
4. Reasoning (Formal Logic) Strand
Reasoning again shifts drastically between 1st and 2nd second semesters (Hopefully you’re used to this by now).
–4A. Bible
Students go through much of the Old Testament in the Bible and the new (summer 2026) CC book, Reasoning Together Words in the Word.
My son enjoyed the Bible readings and class discussions, but had nothing positive to say about the old book, Invitation to the Psalms. CC no longer uses the book and my Ch 4 son rejoiced. Hopefully when my younger son gets to Ch 4, he’ll really enjoy the new book!
–4B. Theology
Students read through Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. I’m encouraged my son to take notes on each chapter of this book, but didn’t require it because of the heavier science load he was doing. He ended up really enjoying this book and we had som many great family discussion about it! (Please, CC, never drop this book!)
It just so happens that my Ladies Bible Study group is read through Mere Christianity recently, so I took notes on it myself! I found them very helpful when we were discussing the book because they allowed me to turn back tot he section is question easily. I’m happy to share them here with you all well.
Jan. 2026 update- I’m editing them now, but here are my notes from “book 1” to tide you over! I printed the PDF as a “booklet” and folded it in half so it’s easy to stick in the book. Mere Christianity Reading Guide- Book 1 (PDF)
What to Purchase for Reasoning
- A Bible, if they don’t already own one.
- I want my students to have a physical one, but also an electronic and audio one. The Bible app by LifeChurch is free and includes audio of most translations.
- I also enjoy the Olive Tree Bible app. I’ve purchased several extra books like a Bible dictionary, Bible maps, commentaries, and versions of the Bible with each word linked to a Strong’s Concordance number. It’s all linked and super easy to use!
- Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
What Goes in the Binder?
- Any loose paper from notes or work done in class.
How to Scale Back Reasoning
- Listen to the Bible and Mere Christianity on audio
How to Grade Reasoning
The only tangible assignments I see here are the 3 speeches they give. There are many places where the guide seems to give optional assignments- I’m not sure how I’ll handle those yet!
So, I will give points for completion of reading and presentations. I also like to give points for participation in class as well. Students started leading strands in Ch 3, but here in Ch 4, this appears to be a fully student-lead strand, so class participation is extra important!
5. Exposition Strand
This year students are exploring ancient literature. They’ll read ancient Greek and Roman literature including Virgil’s the Aeneid, which they are also reading in the Latin (Grammar) strand! The book, Heroes of the City of Man, serves as their guide.
My son was not impressed with Heroes of the City of Man, but enjoyed the ancient literature.
The Ch 4 guide has an interesting article titled, “Why Read Pagan Classics,” that you should read if you find yourself asking that question. They also have an article on their website called “Formation, not Information” that is also about this topic!
What to Purchase for Exposition
I like to buy most of our books used off ebay, but I’ve tried to make sure they are the exact same translation, version, and edition as sold in the CC Bookstore, so my student can follow along with page number refereances in class.
(I’m still working on adding links here!)
- Heroes of the City of Man: A Christian Guide to Select Ancient Literature by Peter J. Leithart
- ebook: Kindle Unlimited,
- audio: Audible,
- Theogony, Works, and Days by Hesiod
- The Illiad by Homer
- ebook: Kindle
- audio: Audible, Hoopla
- The Odyssey by Homer
- ebook: Kindle
- audio: Audible, Hoopla
- The Aeneid by Virgil
- ebook: Kindle
- audio: Audible, Hoopla
- Oedipus Rex by Sophocles
- ebook: Kindle
- audio: Audible, Hoopla
What Goes in the Binder?
I put a few IEW resources and a few LTW resources behind this tab. We’ll see what he ends up using
How to Scale Back Exposition
- Get a simpler translation of each story
- Listen to the books on audio
How We Grade Exposition
Again, with the Ch 4 theme of more presentations, students won’t be generating a lot of written papers, but instead now they have to write speeches! As I mentioned at the beginning of this page, I’ll require some of these to have slides with them. (April 2026 update- our tutor didn’t want tech in the classroom so, no slides)
There are ‘Review Questions’ and ‘Thought Questions’ throughout Heroes in the City of Man, but the guide usually instructs students to “consider” them, so they wouldn’t necessarily need to turn their answers in. You could assign your student to write out the answers to these if you wanted to add a bit more to Exposition.
This year (2025-6), at least with my oldest, I don’t plan to use a grading rubric. He’s become a good writer /speaker and is self-motivated to do well on presentations. I think we’ve moved the point that he knows what a good presentation looks like. I want this to be a place where he is focused on expressing his ideas and so the structure and style are bare minimums. If you’d like to continue to use a grading rubric, here are the ones I’ve used in the past. You might also enjoy my Lost Tools of Writing page or my Essentials page, where I show you how we used the Institute for Excellence in Writing curriculum.
So, I will give points for completion of reading and presentations. I also like to give points for participation in class as well. Students started leading strands in Ch 3, but here in Ch 4, this appears to be a fully student-lead strand, so class participation is extra important!
6. Debate (Social Studies) Strand
This year we’re studying World History, but through the lens of the famous discovers throughout history. The author is not a Christian, (maybe even anti-Christian in a few spots) so this is also an opportunity for our students to stay aware of slant and bias.
Aside: The book, The Discovers, is part of a Trilogy, which also includes The Creators and The Seekers, all available on Kindle and Audible.
What to Purchase for Debate
- The Discovers: A History of Man’s Search to Know His World and Himself by Daniel J Boorstin
What Goes in the Binder?
Students are asked to take notes from the book each week, so I’ll have my son put his notes in the binder here.
How to Scale Back Debate
Without a full audio, I’d say the best scale is to listen to the abridged version. It’s probably a really big scale down, but it will save your student a lot of time and if they’re busy with other classes, jobs, etc, they may need it!
How We Grade Debate
Students are asked to take notes on each chapter and add events to their timeline. With this type of assignment I usually just ask my son to show me his notes and give points for completion. I like to give points for completion of reading and participation in class as well. Students started leading strands in Ch 3, but here in Ch 4, this appears to be a fully student-lead strand, so class participation is extra important!
7. Now Let’s Add Some Artsy Fun!
Also, I’m working on a full drawing video course called Anyone Can Learn to Draw. It’s available for pre-order now!
8. Other Helpful Resources
The other resources grow a lot thinner as the kids move into these upper-classman years. I’m not sure if that’s because the students are more independent or if it’s because fewer families make it this far…
- Kristi Lane has some great aids for Writing (including a bunch of sample papers). Scroll down to the bottom of her writing page for Senior Thesis helps!
Help Contribute!
Now it’s your turn! Let me know how you make the most of Challenge 4!
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